Cai Yongmei (Executive Editor of OPEN magazine) (Based on telephone interview of September 19, 2000 [Editorial Note] Recently Jiang Zemin has openly made accusations against Falun Gong to the US media. This has attracted wide attention. Hence, this magazine conducted an exclusive interview with Dr. CD, a spokesperson of Falun Gong. She answered many questions regarding Falun Gong. Q: It has been a year since the Chinese Communist regime labeled Falun Gong a "xx". During the recent interview with CBS journalist Mr. Wallace, Jiang Zemin once again accused you Falun Gong of a being a "xx". What is your reaction? A: This is totally ungrounded slander against Falun Gong. Falun Gong emphasizes cultivating Xinxing (mind nature, morality) and advocating kindness and compassion. Its fundamental principle is "Zhen-Shan-Ren" (Truthfulness, Compassion, Forbearance). It has been widely practiced by people of different races in over 40 countries. What on earth is evil with Falun Gong? We have no organizations, no membership lists, and no rituals, that is to say, without any forms of a religion. It is not even a religion, let alone a xx (evil religion). He (Jiang Zemin) framed the case against Falun Gong for his personal motives. The suicide allegation against Falun Gong is groundless. Q: He said that Li Hongzhi claimed to be a reincarnated Christ or Sakyamuni [the historical Buddha, Gautama Siddhartha]. A: The Teacher [Li Hongzhi] never said so. The Teacher has always said, "Standing in front of you, I just look as human as you are. What I have been teaching you is the Fa (law and principle of the universe). You should take the Fa as your teacher." The Teacher has asked his practitioners not to worship him. Q: But you indeed adore him very much? A: For a person who teaches us "Zhen-Shan-Ren" (Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance) and enables us to be healthy both physically and mentally, we surely respect and trust him very much. This is unquestionable. Q: Jiang Zemin said that several thousand Falun Gong practitioners committed suicide. A: Chinese Central Television once said the number of deaths was 1400. Now they say several thousand committed suicide. That is totally false. None of the alleged cases is based on the investigation by an independent third party or conclusion by an impartially implemented legal procedure. All those cases are fabricated by State propaganda. In Washington, DC we have a practitioner whose mother is among the 1400 cases. The truth is that she had suffered from a serious disease. After she practiced Falun Gong her health improved substantially, but she still did not totally recover. Later she died following several months of hospitalization. The State said she died of practicing Falun Gong, but her family saw it differently. Q: Were there any deaths caused by untimely treatment because some people believed in Falun Gong and did not see a doctor when they were ill? A: The Teacher explained the relation of practicing cultivation to illnesses and medicine taking. He explained such a principle only to cultivators. The Teacher said, "As everyday people, you should go to see a doctor if you are ill. There are many severely sick people who completely recovered after they did the exercises, but there are also people whose illness did not improve even with the exercises. The situation varies from one individual to another. How could we say we guaranteed that one would not die if he practiced the exercises?" Let's suppose it is true that there were 1400 practitioners who died during the seven years' period, then 200 practitioners died per year on the average, which is a rather low mortality. In the United States, there are 45,000 people who died of medical accidents every year. Can you therefore close down the hospitals in the United States? I am personally not aware of a single case in which someone died because he practiced Falun Gong and refused medical treatment. However, there is one important point to make: Falun Gong is for a person to practice cultivation, not to cure diseases. It is estimated 70 to 100 millions at home and abroad. Q: How many people are presently practicing Falun Gong? A: We have no list of practitioners, so the accurate number is unknown. The Chinese government had a detailed survey of Falun Gong in 1998, saying there were 70 million practitioners. Later, they launched a crackdown against Falun Gong. In order to demonstrate that the crackdown was not extensive they claimed that there were only one to two million practitioners. Formerly they said that there was no problem whatsoever with Falun Gong. It was beneficial to society and saved the State a large amount of medical expense. By and large their opinion of Falun Gong at that time was quite positive. Q: How many then, in your opinion practice Falun Gong? A: 70 to 100 millions, including overseas practitioners. Q: International media kept saying that you had a rigorous organization that had great mobilizing power. What is the truth pertaining to this? A: We do not have an organization.. We have only registered some non-profit organizations overseas to facilitate our activities. Q: Is there any unofficial, private organization existing? A: No organizations whatsoever. Then why is there a great power of mobilization? It is mainly because millions of people are all of one mind. For example, take the "4/25 Zhongnanhai Event"..(Note: When practitioners when to appeal to the Chinese leadership at Tiananmen Square for harassment against them) What we did was not encirclement at all. Instead, it was a group appeal. All participants passed words one to another that they should keep a heart of compassion and kindness and should not act otherwise.. Some people passed by and asked us what happened. We said that the government misunderstood us, and we came to explain the facts to them. It was very peaceful. The international communities had a very high opinion of us. They viewed it as a peaceful and rational negotiation that was second to none in Chinese history. Nobody could ever imagine that Falun Gong would be suppressed a few months later. Q: You just said the government once had a very positive opinion of Falun Gong. Why was Falun Gong suddenly suppressed? A: Falun Gong advocates "Zhen (Truthfulness), Shan (Compassion), Ren (Forbearance)". This has attracted to it a great many people. Many people were drawn to learn Falun Gong because of its high moral and spiritual principles , which contrast greatly with the degeneracy and materialism of society today. The Chinese Communist Party found that the number of Falun Gong practitioners outnumbered theirs and moreover, there were many high-ranked officials practicing it. The Party found Falun Gong was strong. Of course, our strength will not jeopardize politics in any way. We emphasize cultivating our mind nature and morality, and we do not interfere with politics. There have been 53 practitioners who died of abuses and mistreatment and 500 imprisoned so far. Q: Then why do they want to crack down on you? A: This is a conspiracy instigated solely by Jiang Zemin. He does not believe that Falun Gong practitioners are good people because of his narrow-mindedness and intolerance. He lost confidence in himself after the "4/25 Event" was peacefully resolved. He thought these people were a threat to his power. Q: Are there different opinions of Falun Gong inside the Chinese Communist Party? A: There have always been different opinions inside the Party, but they do not prevail. Mike Wallace called him a dictator to his face and questioned his throwing peaceful demonstrators into prison. Even worse, persecuting them to death. Q: How many people were arrested and how many died? A: So far in the last year there have been 53 practitioners who have been persecuted to death. There are over 600 practitioners forcefully confined in mental hospitals and injected with various kinds of drugs harmful to one's nerves and mental health. There are 500 practitioners sentenced to jail terms, of up to 18 years. Over 10,000 practitioners were sent to the forced labor camps without going through legal process. There are 50,000 practitioners who were arrested and detained. The persecution of Falun Gong has involved hundreds of millions of people in all walks of life from the most out-of-the-way countryside to cities, including intellectuals, company employees, military personnel, etc. C there is not a corner in China that is not affected by the crackdown. Everybody in China has been directly or indirectly involved in it. Are these people evil? Q: Are they not all kind, everyday people? A: After the "4.25 Event" we went to the Chinese Embassy to talk to the officials. They told us that they knew Falun Gong practitioners are good people who volunteer to be laid off and leave their jobs to others. This has been a well known story on everybody's lips. It is very hard to find other people like these in today's society. Q: What consequences have been caused by the crackdown of Falun Gong? A: The crackdown has sabotaged the historical process of reforming the whole country. China needs political reforms and legal establishment. Because of the crackdown, any progress previously made in these aspects has been totally ruined. To make things worse, the crackdown is very harmful to Chinese culture and history. This is because the cultivation of Buddhahood or Taoism has been the quintessence of Chinese culture for thousands of years. Such a precious tradition has been ruined due to the policy of several dictators. Q: Do you think the crackdown on Falun Gong is a problem exclusively related to Jiang Zemin or a problem related to the social system? A: Many Chinese Communist Party members are Falun Gong practitioners. Fundamentally speaking, it is, in my opinion, a struggle of evil forces against kindness and compassion. With regard to the social system, in fact there are many high-ranked officials in Chinese government who do not agree with the suppression of Falun Gong. Only a handful of people in power in the Chinese government manipulated this event. However, some issues like personal beliefs are not up to one person or one government to decide. At the time Jesus Christ was teaching, he was also labeled as evil. He was even nailed to the cross. At the time when Sakyamuni was establishing Buddhism, he teaching was also labeled as a "cult". Two hundred of his disciples were beheaded. A pure and righteous way will gain strength and numbers as its practitioners become polished and refined by going through tribulations. Li Hongzhi is still in the United States and is not silent. Q: We felt it was strange that since the crackdown on Falun Gong, Li Hongzhi rarely stepped forward to make clarifications and speak out for his followers. A: Since July 20, 1999 when the arrests and countrywide crackdown started, Teacher Li Hongzhi sent a letter to the Chinese leaders through Chinese Embassy calling for a dialogue with the government for a peaceful resolution. He has indeed spoken out and accepted numerous interviews from the media including CNN, French Broadcasting Corp., BBC, US TIMES, The New York Times, and other popular US newspapers and magazines. He called on international organizations to pay close attention to this issue and appealed for a peaceful resolution, but the Chinese government did not give him a chance. Falun Gong practitioners never stopped petitioning during the past year, and they did it completely voluntarily. This is an issue regarding the human rights of all practitioners, not just about the Teacher. Q: Didn't he disappear and is now silent? A: We can clarify the issues on his behalf. Q: Is Li Hongzhi still in the United States? Have you seen him very often? A: He is still in the United States, but we have not seen him. Q: Is he afraid of being blamed of manipulating the protests? A: This issue is actually about our human rights, which is why we appeal. Teacher Li came out to spread Falun Dafa. He does things following his own logic and chooses the approaches that he sees most appropriate. Q: Why does the western media give you so much support? A: We indeed have gained great support in the western countries. At the news conference held in Washington DC on July 20, Mr. Mark Palmer from the oldest American human rights organization, Freedom House, said that each era, each decade, has been defined and was identified by a peaceful, nonviolent movement. He believed that Falun Gong was the movement that would define our time. In society today everyone knows that if you go to Tiananmen Square to petition you will be arrested and won't know how many years you will be sentenced to jail. People still stepped forward just to tell the truth. Is Falun Gong a religious organization? Q: Do you claim that Falun Gong is a Qigong group that does exercises to improve health and fitness, but won't admit that it is a religious organization? A: People may think that we are trying to avoid this issue and are afraid of being identified as a religious group. In fact, it is not true. We do not have any religious forms such as temples or worship. We do have our own belief, which is Zhen-Shan-Ren [Truthfulness-Benevolence-Forbearance/by translator]. People probably have a very vague idea about what is religion. Actually religion is only a very small portion of Buddha cultivation. But I think this does not matter. Q: But it touched upon the issue of freedom of religion. A: During the crackdown on Falun Gong People's Daily published many articles, which intended to establish the theoretical foundation for the crackdown. The newspaper said that the country only allowed atheism and criticized all religious ideologies including reincarnation, etc. It actually negated all religions as well as all forms of Qigong and the essence of [Chinese] traditional culture. Q: And the new "anti-evil cult" law passed by the People's Congress? A: Before the law was passed by the People's Congress, Jiang Zemin made the claim that Falun Gong was an "evil xx" in a interview with reporters from Le Figaro in France. Before then the suppression of Falun Gong had no legal basis. In addition, the Chinese government did not allow any Falun Gong practitioners to hire attorneys. The courts tried the cases almost secretly, and thus they needed to enact legislation. Q: Were there different opinions about the Falun Gong issue among senior Chinese leaders? A: We have heard that Zhu Rongji was criticized and others did not dare to speak out since Jiang Zemin had set the tone. Actually Zhang Zhenhuan from the Chinese Qigong Research Society, the Public Security Bureau, wrote a letter to the Teacher, praising his contribution to the China Bravery Foundation. The National Qigong Evaluation and Research team in the forums held in Changchun and Haerbin highly praised Teacher Li Hongzhi. About the criticism from Yu xx and He xx Q: Before the Chinese government's crackdown on Falun Gong some intellectuals, e.g. Yu xx and He xx etc., criticized you. Do you now think that you were a little intolerant of these criticisms? In 1998, Falun Gong practitioners surrounded a Beijing TV station, which led to the discharge of reporters and warnings to managers. In addition, some of you even went to He xx's home to argue with him. Do you think this behavior was acceptable? A: People went [to the TV station] to clarify misunderstandings. The Central government had a policy [toward Qigong practice], "No Interference, No Criticism, No Promotion". What they had done violated the "Three No Policy". If the media was completely open, e.g. if they were allowed to criticize and we were allowed to explain, then the two sides would be equal. But we were not allowed to have our voices heard. That was why we went to the TV station to talk to them. Many people went, but we did not surround the place. In fact, after the talk the people at the TV station were deeply touched. One of my friends went to He's xx's home to discuss the issues with him. My friend was sworn at and then thrown out of the house. This person knew He xx and was his student. The rumors regarding this event are not true. Q: Before Falun Gong was suppressed, people who had criticized it indeed felt the pressure. The editor of Tianjing Education College Magazine once said that no one would dare to criticize Falun Gong since the incident. A: That is because different people have different views of the same event. Q: Why different? They criticized you. Then a large number of practitioners exerted pressure on them. A: I believe that if you had seen the attitude of the practitioners then you would know that they had good intentions and you would believe that it was a good communication. Since Guangming Daily criticized Falun Gong in 1996, we wrote numerous letters discussing the issue. The problem was that Falun Gong had been mistreated for many years. Q: You surrounded Zhongnanhai. What did you intend to ask for from the Central government? A: The officials of the city of Tianing could not resolve the situation after they arrested practitioners. That was why we went to the central government. The petition notice was sent to the central government two days before the event. Our presence there was no surprise. After the practitioners arrived, the roads were blocked. People then gathered at the open area nearby. The police removed the barriers and guided the people to Zhongnanhai. You know that many people were from out of town and had no idea where Zhongnanhai was. The so-called surrounding Zhongnanhai was a trap set by the police. He xx was there at the time. Q: I heard that He xx and Luo Gan (who was in charge of the matter) are relatives. A: They are in-laws. Upon seeing an unfair report we just wanted to clarify it. We had benefited from practicing Falun Gong and did not want to let the report prevent others from benefiting from it. Q: Can you talk about your future appealing plans? A: Falun Gong practitioners cultivate compassion and our appeals will always be nonviolent. Practitioners have never fought back with violence despite vicious persecution and ruthless torture. The suppression of Falun Gong will never succeed. International media support Falun Gong Q: How are you doing with your overseas appeals? A: We have never stopped appealing. More and more countries support us. The US House and Senate passed resolutions asking the Chinese government to stop its persecution of Falun Gong. Over 40 honors and proclamations have been issued by cities and states in the US including a "Falun Dafa Week" from Washington DC in August of 1999. Master Li's works have been translated into over 10 languages and people from over 40 countries are practicing Falun Gong. Q: The Chinese government suppresses you and international human rights groups all support you. Do you also pay close attention to the human rights issues in China? A: We cultivate compassion. We care about the justice in this human world but we do not have present plans [of action regarding that issue]. Q: The Chinese government persecuted the underground Catholic Church. Will you show your concerns to what has happened to them? A: We are against any kind of inhumane suppression. People cannot treat others like this. I honestly do not know the details of any plan. [regarding that issue] (Original article published in "Open" magazine on Oct.5, 2000